Comments on: 1 Peter 4:6 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/ by Dr. Grant C. Richison Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:10:01 +0000 hourly 1 By: Elaine http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-116760 Elaine Wed, 01 Feb 2012 03:05:55 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-116760 Dr. Richison, Thanks for your response about the people born and died before Christ came. Even though I have never heard a sermon on this, I have always believed exactly as you stated, that as long as they believed what God revealed to them at that time. Thanks again!  Dr. Richison, Thanks for your response about the people born and died before Christ came. Even though I have never heard a sermon on this, I have always believed exactly as you stated, that as long as they believed what God revealed to them at that time. Thanks again! 

]]> By: Grant http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-116703 Grant Sun, 29 Jan 2012 16:00:31 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-116703 <p>Elaine,</p> <p>About your question, “judged according to men in the flesh,” did you go to the next study? <a href="http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46b/" rel="nofollow">http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46b/</a></p> <p>Your question about people before Christ is an issue of “progression of revelation.” That means all people have to do to become a believer is believe what God revealed to them at the time. All Adam and Eve needed to believe was that God would provide a “seed,” all that the Israelites needed to believe was that God would in the future provide a Redeemer as illustrated by a type—blood sacrifice.</p> Elaine,

About your question, “judged according to men in the flesh,” did you go to the next study? http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46b/

Your question about people before Christ is an issue of “progression of revelation.” That means all people have to do to become a believer is believe what God revealed to them at the time. All Adam and Eve needed to believe was that God would provide a “seed,” all that the Israelites needed to believe was that God would in the future provide a Redeemer as illustrated by a type—blood sacrifice.

]]> By: Elaine http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-116700 Elaine Sun, 29 Jan 2012 03:32:30 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-116700 I am going to a Bible study at church and have home work to do. One of the questions is does the word dead in 1 Pt 4: 6 mean spiritually dead or physically dead. I didn't understand the question so that is why I came to this blog. I was so surprised to see so many different opinions. I am even more confused now. Dr. Richison, you say that it means Christians that have died physically. Now my question is, what does the phrase "that they might be judged according to men in the flesh" mean. Can you put it in a simpler term that can be understood? Also, what about the people that were born and died before Christ came? I know the Bible says that we can only be saved thru our faith in Jesus Christ, but what about all the people that died before his birth that didn't know of his coming? I know in the old testament the people had to offer lambs as a sacrifice for sin or the best of their crops. Was this the way God forgave them of their sins so they could have eternal life? There are just so many questions that I have never heard any sermons on and have been going to church every since I was born. I know that we will never know everything until we go to our eternal homes but just curious as to how the experts interpret the Bible. Thanks so much for your input and God Bless You! I am going to a Bible study at church and have home work to do. One of the questions is does the word dead in 1 Pt 4: 6 mean spiritually dead or physically dead. I didn't understand the question so that is why I came to this blog. I was so surprised to see so many different opinions. I am even more confused now. Dr. Richison, you say that it means Christians that have died physically. Now my question is, what does the phrase "that they might be judged according to men in the flesh" mean. Can you put it in a simpler term that can be understood? Also, what about the people that were born and died before Christ came? I know the Bible says that we can only be saved thru our faith in Jesus Christ, but what about all the people that died before his birth that didn't know of his coming? I know in the old testament the people had to offer lambs as a sacrifice for sin or the best of their crops. Was this the way God forgave them of their sins so they could have eternal life? There are just so many questions that I have never heard any sermons on and have been going to church every since I was born. I know that we will never know everything until we go to our eternal homes but just curious as to how the experts interpret the Bible. Thanks so much for your input and God Bless You!

]]> By: Grant http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-115563 Grant Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:11:54 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-115563 Thank you as well Richard. Thank you as well Richard.

]]> By: Richard Hicks http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-115561 Richard Hicks Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:08:59 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-115561 Dr. Richison, Thank you for your explanation of this verse. I can see the meaning now and it makes good sense. I knew that it could not be taken at face value, but I didn't see the scripture in the angle that you presented until I found your website on the search engine. Thank you again, and keep up the good work. Dr. Richison, Thank you for your explanation of this verse. I can see the meaning now and it makes good sense. I knew that it could not be taken at face value, but I didn’t see the scripture in the angle that you presented until I found your website on the search engine. Thank you again, and keep up the good work.

]]> By: Grant http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-114525 Grant Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:27:10 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-114525 nit, expressing an opinion is not the same as Bible exposition. I think you missed the point of the passage and the discussion above. nit, expressing an opinion is not the same as Bible exposition. I think you missed the point of the passage and the discussion above.

]]> By: nit http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-114461 nit Mon, 27 Jun 2011 04:09:10 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-114461 i listen to everyone that talks about Peter 4:6 i was to believe from the message that god is still speaking to spirits even while dead. i teach bible studies at my home and i feel the present of God is with me but the passage that i believe is that God is still working in the dead he is still saving souls by the spirit and preaching i know on earth he use his different vessels to preach the gospel but he knows that the living vessels cant speak to the dead. so God is still doing miraculous work in the dead to if they choose to accept christ the bible talks about how we can live and obey and follow his commands to live longer lives happier lives but God is a just God and he have mercy an compassion on who he believes. the bible talks about all the different ways you can make it to christ so i know that everything belongs to him so everything even the spirits will return back to him so it just to say that he has the last say so and just believe can get you to eternal life the thief on the cross believe and he was saved by mercy and grace i do believe God is still working even in the grave. i listen to everyone that talks about Peter 4:6 i was to believe from the message that god is still speaking to spirits even while dead. i teach bible studies at my home and i feel the present of God is with me but the passage that i believe is that God is still working in the dead he is still saving souls by the spirit and preaching i know on earth he use his different vessels to preach the gospel but he knows that the living vessels cant speak to the dead. so God is still doing miraculous work in the dead to if they choose to accept christ the bible talks about how we can live and obey and follow his commands to live longer lives happier lives but God is a just God and he have mercy an compassion on who he believes. the bible talks about all the different ways you can make it to christ so i know that everything belongs to him so everything even the spirits will return back to him so it just to say that he has the last say so and just believe can get you to eternal life the thief on the cross believe and he was saved by mercy and grace i do believe God is still working even in the grave.

]]> By: Grant http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-88531 Grant Thu, 12 May 2011 16:39:37 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-88531 Trey, thank you for your careful exegesis. You present a very powerful and possible interpretation. I appreciate your thoughtfulness about this passage. Your use of Greek is very good. 1. Just a reminder—this is a difficult passage for any viewpoint to understand; it is always dangerous to be dogmatic on passages that do not have unquestioned perspicuity. That is certainty the case in this passage in my view. 2. It is important to remember that that the overall argument of First Peter is to vindicate those who suffer for preaching the gospel. Verse 5 is a footnote to verse 6. In other words, why even mention the dead in any sense after referring to both the “living and dead?” Verse 6 draws attention to “the dead” in particular, that is, to the believing physically dead. Yes, these words could indeed refer simply to anyone who died, however, verse 6 is a particularization of those who died. 3. Regarding kai, kai is fundamentally a copulative, not primarily intensive, as you use it. Albeit, it very well could be intensively as NIV and ESV translate it. My translation uses it as a copulative: “also.” Your use of kai, a valid use and is a valid interpretation, however, it requires more justification exegetically to come to your conclusion since it is not the customary use of the word. My interpretation of “spiritually” dead is the believing physically dead, i.e., those who died physically previously to the writing of 1 Peter came to Christ. 4. The phrase tois nekrois is literally “those dead ones.” There is no verb so the translation could be “was preached also to the dead ones.” The aorist passive indicative indicates that the preaching occurred at one point in the past. The “also” in this case would be a different classification than those in verse 5. 5. As an aside, I do not believe “everyone” faces the “final judgment” for there is a distinction between the Judgment Seat of Christ for believers and the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers. Trey, thank you for your careful exegesis. You present a very powerful and possible interpretation. I appreciate your thoughtfulness about this passage. Your use of Greek is very good.
1. Just a reminder—this is a difficult passage for any viewpoint to understand; it is always dangerous to be dogmatic on passages that do not have unquestioned perspicuity. That is certainty the case in this passage in my view.
2. It is important to remember that that the overall argument of First Peter is to vindicate those who suffer for preaching the gospel. Verse 5 is a footnote to verse 6. In other words, why even mention the dead in any sense after referring to both the “living and dead?” Verse 6 draws attention to “the dead” in particular, that is, to the believing physically dead. Yes, these words could indeed refer simply to anyone who died, however, verse 6 is a particularization of those who died.
3. Regarding kai, kai is fundamentally a copulative, not primarily intensive, as you use it. Albeit, it very well could be intensively as NIV and ESV translate it. My translation uses it as a copulative: “also.” Your use of kai, a valid use and is a valid interpretation, however, it requires more justification exegetically to come to your conclusion since it is not the customary use of the word. My interpretation of “spiritually” dead is the believing physically dead, i.e., those who died physically previously to the writing of 1 Peter came to Christ.
4. The phrase tois nekrois is literally “those dead ones.” There is no verb so the translation could be “was preached also to the dead ones.” The aorist passive indicative indicates that the preaching occurred at one point in the past. The “also” in this case would be a different classification than those in verse 5.
5. As an aside, I do not believe “everyone” faces the “final judgment” for there is a distinction between the Judgment Seat of Christ for believers and the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers.

]]> By: Trey http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-88321 Trey Thu, 12 May 2011 04:38:25 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-88321 Dr. Grant, Your view is certainly a good one, but can I suggest a few minor adjustments and perhaps a different approach to the passage? 1. Someone earlier asked about the word "even" in the NIV and you brushed it off on account of the NIV's dynamic translation. The trouble with that is that there is a kai in the Greek right before tois nekrois, so your translation should reflect that kai. This is significant because it basically eliminates the reading of "the dead" as those who are spiritually dead. Why would the gospel be preached to EVEN the spiritually dead? It is, after all preached ESPECIALLY to the spiritually dead. 2. On the heels of #1, your view actually turns out to be more dynamic than it is literal. There is no way that tois nekrois can be translated as "those who are dead." The verse should literally read "the gospel was preached even to the dead." Now, I agree with your interpretation, but before you can call the NIV dynamic, you need to check yourself on your Greek. There is no relative pronoun (hois) in the Greek, which is necessary for your translation. Even if you take tois as "the ones" (which would be inaccurate), your translation should read, "the gospel was preached even to the ones are dead." That's nonsensical. A main verb is already present in that clause -- euaggelizo. You landed in the right place because I do think, in light of the complication of this verse, that your interpretation is correct, but your justification of it is all off. 3. One commenter noted that you divorce the meaning of "the dead" in v. 5 from "the dead" in v. 6. This is a valid critique, and one for which your particular view has trouble accounting. In v. 5 "the dead" is part of a merism which comprises all people, so the dead are the literal dead, NOT the spiritual dead. Everyone faces the final judgment, not just unbelievers. Regardless, even the spiritual dead is a big semantic jump from v. 5 to v. 6. In v. 6 you argue that "the dead" are dead Christians, but in v. 5 they're simply dead people. To make such an abrupt change in word meaning almost in the same breath is a bit strange. An alternative suggestion to your exegesis here would be that "the dead" refer to all dead people, believing and unbelieving. After all the purpose of preaching the gospel is that men would live by God's standard (i.e. have eternal life). Now, that purpose is not always accomplished; otherwise, everyone would be saved, and they're not. So there is no problem with taking "the dead" in the exact same way that it is meant in v. 5, namely the physically dead. Furthermore, I would argue that this fits the contexts well. After all, the Christians in Asia Minor are obviously undergoing severe persecution because they're preaching the gospel. Peter here is assuring them that their efforts simply mirror those of all the Christians in the past (yes there were "Christians" before Christ) who preached the gospel in the midst of mockery. Noah, for example is a perfect example, for he is called a "preacher of righteousness" in 2 Pet 2:5. Did anyone convert when he preached in light of upcoming judgment (the Flood)? No. They all perished and even mocked him, no doubt. Yet God brought him safely through said judgment. In the same way, Christians in Peter's time and all ages preach the gospel that men might be saved in view of a coming judgment (the Day of the Lord) -- regardless of men's responses -- knowing that God will carry them safely through. Trey Dr. Grant,
Your view is certainly a good one, but can I suggest a few minor adjustments and perhaps a different approach to the passage?
1. Someone earlier asked about the word “even” in the NIV and you brushed it off on account of the NIV’s dynamic translation. The trouble with that is that there is a kai in the Greek right before tois nekrois, so your translation should reflect that kai.
This is significant because it basically eliminates the reading of “the dead” as those who are spiritually dead. Why would the gospel be preached to EVEN the spiritually dead? It is, after all preached ESPECIALLY to the spiritually dead.
2. On the heels of #1, your view actually turns out to be more dynamic than it is literal. There is no way that tois nekrois can be translated as “those who are dead.” The verse should literally read “the gospel was preached even to the dead.” Now, I agree with your interpretation, but before you can call the NIV dynamic, you need to check yourself on your Greek. There is no relative pronoun (hois) in the Greek, which is necessary for your translation. Even if you take tois as “the ones” (which would be inaccurate), your translation should read, “the gospel was preached even to the ones are dead.” That’s nonsensical. A main verb is already present in that clause — euaggelizo.
You landed in the right place because I do think, in light of the complication of this verse, that your interpretation is correct, but your justification of it is all off.
3. One commenter noted that you divorce the meaning of “the dead” in v. 5 from “the dead” in v. 6. This is a valid critique, and one for which your particular view has trouble accounting. In v. 5 “the dead” is part of a merism which comprises all people, so the dead are the literal dead, NOT the spiritual dead. Everyone faces the final judgment, not just unbelievers. Regardless, even the spiritual dead is a big semantic jump from v. 5 to v. 6. In v. 6 you argue that “the dead” are dead Christians, but in v. 5 they’re simply dead people. To make such an abrupt change in word meaning almost in the same breath is a bit strange.
An alternative suggestion to your exegesis here would be that “the dead” refer to all dead people, believing and unbelieving. After all the purpose of preaching the gospel is that men would live by God’s standard (i.e. have eternal life). Now, that purpose is not always accomplished; otherwise, everyone would be saved, and they’re not. So there is no problem with taking “the dead” in the exact same way that it is meant in v. 5, namely the physically dead. Furthermore, I would argue that this fits the contexts well. After all, the Christians in Asia Minor are obviously undergoing severe persecution because they’re preaching the gospel. Peter here is assuring them that their efforts simply mirror those of all the Christians in the past (yes there were “Christians” before Christ) who preached the gospel in the midst of mockery. Noah, for example is a perfect example, for he is called a “preacher of righteousness” in 2 Pet 2:5. Did anyone convert when he preached in light of upcoming judgment (the Flood)? No. They all perished and even mocked him, no doubt. Yet God brought him safely through said judgment. In the same way, Christians in Peter’s time and all ages preach the gospel that men might be saved in view of a coming judgment (the Day of the Lord) — regardless of men’s responses — knowing that God will carry them safely through.

Trey

]]> By: Vadim http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-peter/1-peter-46/comment-page-1/#comment-79558 Vadim Mon, 25 Apr 2011 04:48:30 +0000 http://versebyversecommentary.com/1997/11/14/1-peter-46/#comment-79558 We need to take into consideration, the immediate context of Romans 5:12, “Therefore, just as through ONE man [Adam's] sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to ALL men, because ALL sinned” (Romans 5:12). If we read further (5:18), the picture completely changes: "Consequently, just as the result of ONE [Adam's] trespass was condemnation for ALL men, so also the result of ONE [Jesus'] act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL men" (Romans 5:18). And, accordingly, verse 23 is clearly understood in light of verse 18, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). I think interpretation needs to be done in light of a bigger picture. Thanks. We need to take into consideration, the immediate context of Romans 5:12, “Therefore, just as through ONE man [Adam's] sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to ALL men, because ALL sinned” (Romans 5:12). If we read further (5:18), the picture completely changes: “Consequently, just as the result of ONE [Adam's] trespass was condemnation for ALL men, so also the result of ONE [Jesus'] act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL men” (Romans 5:18). And, accordingly, verse 23 is clearly understood in light of verse 18, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). I think interpretation needs to be done in light of a bigger picture. Thanks.

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