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	<title>Comments on: Genesis 3:15</title>
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	<description>by Dr. Grant C. Richison</description>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75949</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 02:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have made a decision about this running discussion on Satan&#039;s sex. There are 118 blogs on this page--most of them on this subject. It is obvious that some choose to use a form of exposition that is outside normal scholarship. Therefore, I am going to unapprove all further discussion on this topic. Elizabeth had the wisdom to be right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have made a decision about this running discussion on Satan&#8217;s sex. There are 118 blogs on this page&#8211;most of them on this subject. It is obvious that some choose to use a form of exposition that is outside normal scholarship. Therefore, I am going to unapprove all further discussion on this topic. Elizabeth had the wisdom to be right.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75930</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 01:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75930</guid>
		<description>John Paul,

No, I do not believe the sin passed on from Adam is &quot;bodiless&quot; On the other hand, I believe the sin of Adam instigated by Satan became a sin capacity that was passed on from individual to individual by physical birth. This is the doctrine of the federal headship of Adam (in Adam versus in Christ). As &quot;in Christ&quot; is a spiritual status so is &quot;in Adam&quot; a spiritual status. 
To assert that the &quot;seed&quot; is a physical seed produced by Satan reads into the text something that is not there or anywhere else in the Bible. This is the hermeneutical error called &quot;interpolation.&quot; The onus of proof of such an assertion falls on the person who asserts the interpretation.
Everything in the New Testament dealing with the sin capacity (&quot;flesh,&quot; &quot;the Old man,&quot; &quot;seed,&quot; &quot;sin&quot; in the singular versus sins in the plural for example) refers to the fall of Adam, not some supposed sex act. This is the argument of Romans 5-7 and well as numerous other passages. The history of the church argues this point, the history of biblical interpretation argues this point. The difference has been between federal headship of Adam versus the traducian view of the nature of man. The body carries the sin capacity--&quot;As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.&quot; &quot;In Christ&quot; was not physical and the essence of &quot;in Adam&quot; is sin, not physical. 
In other words, my issue is not &quot;shock&quot; but a demanding exegesis, exposition of Scripture that will not allow eisegesis or reading into the text something that is not there. This is especially true when we consider the overwhelming evidence of how the New Testament looks at this issue. The New Testament is didactic, not narrative, which gives greater specificity to the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Paul,</p>
<p>No, I do not believe the sin passed on from Adam is &#8220;bodiless&#8221; On the other hand, I believe the sin of Adam instigated by Satan became a sin capacity that was passed on from individual to individual by physical birth. This is the doctrine of the federal headship of Adam (in Adam versus in Christ). As &#8220;in Christ&#8221; is a spiritual status so is &#8220;in Adam&#8221; a spiritual status.<br />
To assert that the &#8220;seed&#8221; is a physical seed produced by Satan reads into the text something that is not there or anywhere else in the Bible. This is the hermeneutical error called &#8220;interpolation.&#8221; The onus of proof of such an assertion falls on the person who asserts the interpretation.<br />
Everything in the New Testament dealing with the sin capacity (&#8220;flesh,&#8221; &#8220;the Old man,&#8221; &#8220;seed,&#8221; &#8220;sin&#8221; in the singular versus sins in the plural for example) refers to the fall of Adam, not some supposed sex act. This is the argument of Romans 5-7 and well as numerous other passages. The history of the church argues this point, the history of biblical interpretation argues this point. The difference has been between federal headship of Adam versus the traducian view of the nature of man. The body carries the sin capacity&#8211;&#8221;As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.&#8221; &#8220;In Christ&#8221; was not physical and the essence of &#8220;in Adam&#8221; is sin, not physical.<br />
In other words, my issue is not &#8220;shock&#8221; but a demanding exegesis, exposition of Scripture that will not allow eisegesis or reading into the text something that is not there. This is especially true when we consider the overwhelming evidence of how the New Testament looks at this issue. The New Testament is didactic, not narrative, which gives greater specificity to the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: John Paul</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75921</link>
		<dc:creator>John Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 01:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75921</guid>
		<description>Grant,  thank you for your comments. However (and with apologies for my &quot;disjuncted&quot; hermeneutics), re  Brown, Driver, and Briggs:  A)  the collective zahar term does not exclude the individual.  B) the term clearly indicates physical progeny. The zahar of the serpent, individual and collective, cannot, as you seem to believe, consist simply of disembodied spirits. 

It appears that the basic reasoning behind your insistence on a bodiless progeny for the serpent is that for his progeny to have a physical dimension there had to be sexual intercourse between him and Eve. In that respect your thinking matches that of the Branhamites and their followers (including Andy) who believe that “physical progeny = need for sexual intercourse”. I understand your shock at and rejection of a doctrine which, to you, implies an unimaginable sexual act. There are some parallels here with Nicodemus throwing his hands up in horror in Jn3.4. The mistake in both cases (although Nicodemus may be intentionally exaggerating, which I do not think you are) is over reliance on simplistic human reasoning which sees a need for human sexual involvement to viabilize an act of God. If a born again believer can be generated outside of human sexual involvement why cannot the serpent&#039;s progeny be generated outside of demonic sexual involvement? If the former can be a flesh and blood being why must the latter be a disembodied spirit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grant,  thank you for your comments. However (and with apologies for my &#8220;disjuncted&#8221; hermeneutics), re  Brown, Driver, and Briggs:  A)  the collective zahar term does not exclude the individual.  B) the term clearly indicates physical progeny. The zahar of the serpent, individual and collective, cannot, as you seem to believe, consist simply of disembodied spirits. </p>
<p>It appears that the basic reasoning behind your insistence on a bodiless progeny for the serpent is that for his progeny to have a physical dimension there had to be sexual intercourse between him and Eve. In that respect your thinking matches that of the Branhamites and their followers (including Andy) who believe that “physical progeny = need for sexual intercourse”. I understand your shock at and rejection of a doctrine which, to you, implies an unimaginable sexual act. There are some parallels here with Nicodemus throwing his hands up in horror in Jn3.4. The mistake in both cases (although Nicodemus may be intentionally exaggerating, which I do not think you are) is over reliance on simplistic human reasoning which sees a need for human sexual involvement to viabilize an act of God. If a born again believer can be generated outside of human sexual involvement why cannot the serpent&#8217;s progeny be generated outside of demonic sexual involvement? If the former can be a flesh and blood being why must the latter be a disembodied spirit?</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75847</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75847</guid>
		<description>Andy, you are so far off any understanding of languages of Scripture that any attempt to answer you is totally futile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, you are so far off any understanding of languages of Scripture that any attempt to answer you is totally futile.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75843</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75843</guid>
		<description>Andy, you completely ignore all of the arguments above and simply restate your obscurantic interpretation, which no credible scholar accepts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, you completely ignore all of the arguments above and simply restate your obscurantic interpretation, which no credible scholar accepts.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75834</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75834</guid>
		<description>Jesus was not talking about Jews in general in John 8:44 but to the religious leaders. There is no basis for your anti-semitism, Jesus Himself was a Jew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus was not talking about Jews in general in John 8:44 but to the religious leaders. There is no basis for your anti-semitism, Jesus Himself was a Jew.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75832</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75832</guid>
		<description>Andy, I do not want to get into Jewish because I do not have time to research the context of that statement. I believe that Satan was personified in the snake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, I do not want to get into Jewish because I do not have time to research the context of that statement. I believe that Satan was personified in the snake.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75830</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75830</guid>
		<description>Just for reference, this &quot;idea&quot; actually has quite a record, and is not new.  From the Encyclopedia Judaica (copyright 1971, Vol. XIV, page 906: &quot;During the Middle Ages the Church, basing itself on such passages in the New Testament as &quot;Ye are of your father and the devil&quot; (John 8:44), propounded the doctrine* that the Jews were the &#039;spawn of Satan&#039;.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for reference, this &#8220;idea&#8221; actually has quite a record, and is not new.  From the Encyclopedia Judaica (copyright 1971, Vol. XIV, page 906: &#8220;During the Middle Ages the Church, basing itself on such passages in the New Testament as &#8220;Ye are of your father and the devil&#8221; (John 8:44), propounded the doctrine* that the Jews were the &#8216;spawn of Satan&#8217;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75829</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 21:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75829</guid>
		<description>Andy, not counting other areas of grammar, there are over 8,000 mistakes in tense alone in the KJV. No biblical scholar holds that the KJV is inspired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, not counting other areas of grammar, there are over 8,000 mistakes in tense alone in the KJV. No biblical scholar holds that the KJV is inspired.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://versebyversecommentary.com/christmas/genesis-315/comment-page-2/#comment-75828</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 20:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://versebyversecommentary.com/2001/12/23/genesis-315/#comment-75828</guid>
		<description>The problem I have with saying there is a spiritual progeny and a literal progeny out of the same verse and from the same word in that verse, is that if you take that course of interpretation through the rest of the Bible, you will hit-and-miss in just about every book of the Bible.  

Please read this and double-check if needed.  From the Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. XI (copyright 1905, page 69-70): &quot;Satan was the seducer and the paramour of Eve, and was hurled from heaven together with other angels because of his iniquity (Slavonic Book of Enoch)...The chief functions of Satan are, as already noted, those of temptation, accusation, and punishment.  He was an active agent in the fall of man...and was the father of Cain...The serpent of Gen. iii. is identified with Satan.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I have with saying there is a spiritual progeny and a literal progeny out of the same verse and from the same word in that verse, is that if you take that course of interpretation through the rest of the Bible, you will hit-and-miss in just about every book of the Bible.  </p>
<p>Please read this and double-check if needed.  From the Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. XI (copyright 1905, page 69-70): &#8220;Satan was the seducer and the paramour of Eve, and was hurled from heaven together with other angels because of his iniquity (Slavonic Book of Enoch)&#8230;The chief functions of Satan are, as already noted, those of temptation, accusation, and punishment.  He was an active agent in the fall of man&#8230;and was the father of Cain&#8230;The serpent of Gen. iii. is identified with Satan.&#8221;</p>
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