2 Comments

1. 

   Martin Trumbull on November 25, 2022 at 10:30 am

   I have an important question about John 6:50. >

   This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.

   Your comment says this. “Not die” is an assertion of eternal security. There is an unending continuity of no death when one believes in Christ.

   Well, it looks to me that if a person does not have this eternal security of “no death”, then the only option that is left is that they will die a permanent death. They will not be alive in hell. They will die the second death which will be a physical death.

   After all, they cannot become spiritually dead for a second time. Now I know that you teach eternal conscious torment, so I would like to see how you would explain this verse.

2. 

   Grant on November 25, 2022 at 2:03 pm

   Martin,
   In the previous context Jesus argued that He guaranteed eternal life to those who believe on Him (Jn 6:35-40). The Jews argued that He could not be the bread of life because he was the son of Joseph (vv. 35-36). Jesus then argued that He is the eternal Son of God, who came from heaven, but that the Jews could not believe on Him without the Father drawing them to Christ (6:44). Then Jesus contrasted the physical death of the Jews to His offer of eternal life (vv. 49-51).
   Here is Jesus’ argument in John 6: The manna which was given to your fathers to maintain them in physical, earthly life, could not assert its power against death, and maintain them continually in life. Jesus said in effect, “Your fathers died physically. The bread which comes down from heaven does not give physical life; it is not sent for that purpose, but the life which it is given to maintain, it maintains in continuance and precludes death.” Taken in connection with the context, the words interpret themselves.
   This “eating” uses the Greek aorist tense: It is a singular event, a decision to believe and appropriate the gift of eternal life. ἀποθάνῃ (aorist, active, subjunctive, third person, singular)
   to die. The word ἀποθάνῃ is modified by μὴ (adverb) in Jn 6:50, (μὴ is within the current clausal unit, before ἀποθάνῃ). “Died” in the previous verse referred to physical death; here the same verb refers to spiritual death. Anyone who partakes of Christ has the life that is eternal. This future hope is combined in this discourse with a present fulfillment, for Jesus will shortly say that those who eat the bread of heaven will not die but will live forever (vv. 50–51). Eat refers metaphorically to believing savingly in Jesus, which alone rescues sinners from eternal death (cf. 3:16; 11:26). Appropriating Jesus as the Bread of Life is the theme of the next section of this sermon.
   In terms of figure of speech, this is a litotes, that is, to “not die” here is to live forever. The individual is no longer under the sentence of death.
   God’s intention is that we shall eat of this Bread, and the intended result of this eating is that we shall escape spiritual death. As the food, so the eating and its effect both in the case of the manna and in the case of the Bread of Life. Those who eat only the earthly bread prolong only their earthly life and finally die in temporal death and never attain anything more. Those who eat of the Bread of Life obtain the spiritual and heavenly life, which passes unharmed through temporal death and enters into eternal blessedness. “He that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live; and whosoever lives and believes on me shall never die,” John 11:25, 26. “And not die” refers to spiritual and eternal death. Those who eat of the Bread of Life escape eternal death; those who spurn the Bread of Life fail to escape. Note the strong contrast in the two verses 49 and 50: “and they died”— “and (shall) not die.”
   Grant Osborne says this: “With logical precision, Jesus concludes the discourse with the death-life antithesis of verses 49–50. Their ancestors who had only manna perished (v. 49), while those in Jesus’ time who eat the bread that “comes down from heaven” will not die (v. 50). Like all perishable things (see 6:27), manna kept the Israelites alive for a while but was unable to sustain them long term. All who ate it eventually died. There is only one path to everlasting life, to eat “the bread that comes down from heaven.” God is the true and only source of this new everlasting life, and the Jews of Jesus’ day missed it because of their opposition to Jesus. He is the only bread that one can “eat and not die.””
   Without going into much detail, here is my summary of the many kinds of death in the Bible: Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body (Jas 2:26). Spiritual death is the separation of man from God (Ge 3:7-13). Sin separates us from God (Isa 59:2). Spiritual death: Eph 2:1; Ro 5:12; 6:23; 1 Co 15:23. Sin separates us from the life of God (Eph 2:1-3). The Second Death is eternal separation from God (Re 20:11-15; He 9:27). Thus, it is important to distinguish between the different kinds of death in Scripture.
   Here is a summary of the Greek words for death:
   DEATH,
   A. Nouns
   1. thanatos (θάνατος,), “death,” is used in Scripture of:
   (a) the separation of the soul (the spiritual part of man) from the body (the material part), the latter ceasing to function and turning to dust, e.g., John 11:13; Heb. 2:15; 5:7; 7:23. In Heb. 9:15, the KJV, “by means of death” is inadequate; the RV, “a death having taken place” is in keeping with the subject. In Rev. 13:3, 12, the RV, “death-stroke” (KJV, “deadly wound”) is, lit., “the stroke of death”:
   (b) the separation of man from God; Adam died on the day he disobeyed God, Gen. 2:17, and hence all mankind are born in the same spiritual condition, Rom. 5:12, 14, 17, 21, from which, however, those who believe in Christ are delivered, John 5:24; 1 John 3:14. “Death” is the opposite of life; it never denotes nonexistence. As spiritual life is “conscious existence in communion with God,” so spiritual “death” is “conscious existence in separation from God.”
   “Death, in whichever of the above-mentioned senses it is used, is always, in Scripture, viewed as the penal consequence of sin, and since sinners alone are subject to death, Rom. 5:12, it was as the Bearer of sin that the Lord Jesus submitted thereto on the Cross, 1 Pet. 2:24. And while the physical death of the Lord Jesus was of the essence of His sacrifice, it was not the whole. The darkness symbolized, and His cry expressed, the fact that He was left alone in the Universe, He was ‘forsaken;’ cf. Matt. 27:45–46.”*
   2. anairesis (ἀναίρεσις, 336), another word for “death,” lit. signifies “a taking up or off” (ana, “up,” airo, “to take”), as of the taking of a life, or “putting to death”; it is found in Acts 8:1, of the murder of Stephen. Some mss. have it in 22:20. See anaireo, under KILL.¶ In the Sept., Num. 11:15; Judg. 15:17, “the lifting of the jawbone.¶
   3. teleute (τελευτή, 5054), “an end, limit” (cf. telos, see END), hence, “the end of life, death,” is used of the “death” of Herod, Matt. 2:15.¶
   B. Adjective.
   epithanatios (ἐπιθανάτιος, 1935), “doomed to death” (epi, “upon,” thanatos, A, No. 1), is said of the apostles, in 1 Cor. 4:9.¶
   C. Verbs.
   1. thanatoo (θανατόω, 2289), “to put to death” (akin to A, No. 1), in Matt. 10:21; Mark 13:12; Luke 21:16, is translated “shall … cause (them) to be put to death,” lit., “shall put (them) to death” (RV marg.). It is used of the death of Christ in Matt. 26:59; 27:1; Mark 14:55 and 1 Pet. 3:18. In Rom. 7:4 (passive voice) it is translated “ye … were made dead,” RV (for KJV, “are become”), with reference to the change from bondage to the Law to union with Christ; in 8:13, “mortify” (marg., “make to die”), of the act of the believer in regard to the deeds of the body; in 8:36, “are killed”; so in 2 Cor. 6:9. See KILL, MORTIFY.¶
   2. anaireo (ἀναιρέω, 337), lit., “to take or lift up or away” (see A, No. 2), hence, “to put to death,” is usually translated “to kill or slay”; in two places “put to death,” Luke 23:32; Acts 26:10. It is used 17 times, with this meaning, in Acts. See KILL, SLAY, TAKE.
   3. apago (ἀπάγω, 520), lit., “to lead away” (apo, “away,” ago, “to lead”), is used especially in a judicial sense, “to put to death,” e.g., Acts 12:19. See BRING, CARRY, LEAD, TAKE.
   4. apokteino (ἀποκτείνω, 615), to kill, is so translated in the RV, for the KJV, “put to death,” in Mark 14:1; Luke 18:33; in John 11:53; 12:10 and 18:31, RV, “put to death.” See KILL, SLAY.
   Note: The phrase eschatos echo, lit., “to have extremely,” i.e., “to be in extremity,” in extremis, “at the last (gasp), to be at the point of death,” is used in Mark 5:23.¶
   DIE, DEAD (to be, become), DYING
   1. thnesko (θνήσκω, 2348), “to die” (in the perf. tense, “to be dead”), in the NT is always used of physical “death,” except in 1 Tim. 5:6, where it is metaphorically used of the loss of spiritual life. The noun thanatos, and the verb thanatoo (below) are connected. The root of this group of words probably had the significance of the breathing out of the last breath. Cf words under DEATH.
   2. apothnesko (ἀποθνήσκω, 599), lit., “to die off or out,” is used (a) of the separation of the soul from the body, i.e., the natural “death” of human beings, e.g., Matt. 9:24; Rom. 7:2; by reason of descent from Adam, 1 Cor. 15:22; or of violent “death,” whether of men or animals; with regard to the latter it is once translated “perished,” Matt. 8:32; of vegetation, Jude 12; of seeds, John 12:24; 1 Cor. 15:36; it is used of “death” as a punishment in Israel under the Law, in Heb. 10:28; (b) of the separation of man from God, all who are descended from Adam not only “die” physically, owing to sin, see (a) above, but are naturally in the state of separation from God, 2 Cor. 5:14. From this believers are freed both now and eternally, John 6:50; 11:26, through the “death” of Christ, Rom. 5:8, e.g.; unbelievers, who “die” physically as such, remain in eternal separation from God, John 8:24. Believers have spiritually “died” to the Law as a means of life, Gal. 2:19; Col. 2:20; to sin, Rom. 6:2, and in general to all spiritual association with the world and with that which pertained to their unregenerate state, Col. 3:3, because of their identification with the “death” of Christ, Rom. 6:8 (see No. 3, below). As life never means mere existence, so “death,” the opposite of life, never means nonexistence. See PERISH.
   3. sunapothnesko (συναποθνήσκω, 4880), “to die with, to die together,” is used of association in physical “death,” Mark 14:31; in 2 Cor. 7:3, the apostle declares that his love to the saints makes separation impossible, whether in life or in “death.” It is used once of association spiritually with Christ in His “death,” 2 Tim. 2:11. See No. 2 (b).¶
   4. teleutao (τελευτάω, 5053), “to end” (from telos, “an end”), hence, “to end one’s life,” is used (a) of the “death” of the body, Matt. 2:19; 9:18; 15:4, where “die the death” means “surely die,” RV, marg., lit., “let him end by death”; Mark 7:10; Matt. 22:25, “deceased”; Luke 7:2; John 11:39, some mss. have verb No. 1 here; Acts 2:29; 7:15; Heb. 11:22 (RV, “his end was nigh”); (b) of the gnawings of conscience in self reproach, under the symbol of a worm, Mark 9:48 (vv. 44 and 46, KJV). See DECEASE.¶
   5. koimao (κοιμάω, 2837), in the middle and passive voices, its only use in the NT, signifies “to fall asleep.” It is connected etymologically with keimai “to lie down,” the root ki— signifying “to lie.” Hence it is used metaphorically of “death,” Matt. 27:52, etc. It is translated “be dead” in 1 Cor. 7:39. See ASLEEP.
   6. apoginomai (ἀπογενόμενος, 581**), lit., “to be away from” (apo, “from,” ginomai, “to be, become”; apo here signifies “separation”), is used in 1 Pet. 2:24 of the believer’s attitude towards sin as the result of Christ’s having borne our sins in His body on the tree; RV, “having died unto sins,” the aorist or momentary tense, expressing an event in the past.¶
   Note: Apollumi, “to destroy,” is found in the middle voice in some mss. in John 18:14, and translated “die.” The most authentic mss. have apothnesko (No. 2, above).
   DIE, DEAD (to be, become), DYING
   1. thnesko (θνήσκω, 2348), “to die” (in the perf. tense, “to be dead”), in the NT is always used of physical “death,” except in 1 Tim. 5:6, where it is metaphorically used of the loss of spiritual life. The noun thanatos, and the verb thanatoo (below) are connected. The root of this group of words probably had the significance of the breathing out of the last breath. Cf words under DEATH.
   2. apothnesko (ἀποθνήσκω, 599), lit., “to die off or out,” is used (a) of the separation of the soul from the body, i.e., the natural “death” of human beings, e.g., Matt. 9:24; Rom. 7:2; by reason of descent from Adam, 1 Cor. 15:22; or of violent “death,” whether of men or animals; with regard to the latter it is once translated “perished,” Matt. 8:32; of vegetation, Jude 12; of seeds, John 12:24; 1 Cor. 15:36; it is used of “death” as a punishment in Israel under the Law, in Heb. 10:28; (b) of the separation of man from God, all who are descended from Adam not only “die” physically, owing to sin, see (a) above, but are naturally in the state of separation from God, 2 Cor. 5:14. From this believers are freed both now and eternally, John 6:50; 11:26, through the “death” of Christ, Rom. 5:8, e.g.; unbelievers, who “die” physically as such, remain in eternal separation from God, John 8:24. Believers have spiritually “died” to the Law as a means of life, Gal. 2:19; Col. 2:20; to sin, Rom. 6:2, and in general to all spiritual association with the world and with that which pertained to their unregenerate state, Col. 3:3, because of their identification with the “death” of Christ, Rom. 6:8 (see No. 3, below). As life never means mere existence, so “death,” the opposite of life, never means nonexistence. See PERISH.
   3. sunapothnesko (συναποθνήσκω, 4880), “to die with, to die together,” is used of association in physical “death,” Mark 14:31; in 2 Cor. 7:3, the apostle declares that his love to the saints makes separation impossible, whether in life or in “death.” It is used once of association spiritually with Christ in His “death,” 2 Tim. 2:11. See No. 2 (b).¶
   4. teleutao (τελευτάω, 5053), “to end” (from telos, “an end”), hence, “to end one’s life,” is used (a) of the “death” of the body, Matt. 2:19; 9:18; 15:4, where “die the death” means “surely die,” RV, marg., lit., “let him end by death”; Mark 7:10; Matt. 22:25, “deceased”; Luke 7:2; John 11:39, some mss. have verb No. 1 here; Acts 2:29; 7:15; Heb. 11:22 (RV, “his end was nigh”); (b) of the gnawings of conscience in self reproach, under the symbol of a worm, Mark 9:48 (vv. 44 and 46, KJV). See DECEASE.¶
   5. koimao (κοιμάω, 2837), in the middle and passive voices, its only use in the NT, signifies “to fall asleep.” It is connected etymologically with keimai “to lie down,” the root ki— signifying “to lie.” Hence it is used metaphorically of “death,” Matt. 27:52, etc. It is translated “be dead” in 1 Cor. 7:39. See ASLEEP.
   6. apoginomai (ἀπογενόμενος, 581**), lit., “to be away from” (apo, “from,” ginomai, “to be, become”; apo here signifies “separation”), is used in 1 Pet. 2:24 of the believer’s attitude towards sin as the result of Christ’s having borne our sins in His body on the tree; RV, “having died unto sins,” the aorist or momentary tense, expressing an event in the past.¶
   Note: Apollumi, “to destroy,” is found in the middle voice in some mss. in John 18:14, and translated “die.” The most authentic mss. have apothnesko (No. 2, above). (Vine’s Lexicon)