39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
The Holy Spirit now moves from future considerations to what believers were facing in the first century.
There is a connection between a weak faith and withdrawal from a faithful walk with the Lord. There is also a similarity between the Christian life and the exodus generation (He 3:6–4:13).
39 But we [emphatic, including the author] are not of those who draw back
“Draw back” does not refer to apostasy but contextually to the failure to be consistently true to what God has said (Ga 2:12). The class of those who draw back contrasts with the “faith” class. The author of Hebrews fears that some may have misunderstood the warning of the previous verse (He 10:38).
to perdition [ruin],
“Perdition” here is not hell; it is not eternal destruction of the soul. This word means ruin. The term can refer to either eternal destruction in hell or temporal discipline. Here to draw back will ruin the believer who does this in his present life. These believers “who draw back” will face temporal disciple from God.
The believer cannot draw back to eternal ruin. However, the Christian can ruin their testimony of walking by faith and keeping the clarity of their message if they minimize the finished work of Christ.
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul [life].
The word “saving” in Greek does not refer to saving the soul for eternity. The word in Greek is a noun that should be translated as preservation, keep safe, It is not the normal Greek word for “save.” It has a range of meanings that include conserving the consistent spiritual life of the believer. The preservation here is the saving of the believer from ruining his daily Christian life. This phrase has nothing to do with the conversion of the soul. The point is that the believer is to be careful not to lose his or her healthy spiritual life and thus their reward.
The word “soul” can mean simply normal day-by-day life. Here the meaning is the saving of one’s daily life (He 10:32–39). If one lives by faith during times of duress, then he will receive reward from God. This is the point of the next chapters (He 11 and 12). Thus, the “saving of the soul” here has to do with ruining the Christian life. The believer will have wasted opportunity for rich reward in heaven.
PRINCIPLE:
The Christian can lose his or her reward by not remaining true to the truth.
APPLICATION:
The purpose of the conclusion of Hebrews 10 is to warn believers of God’s disciplining them for distorting doctrine and walking away from a consistent Christian life. Under duress, a believer must not give way to her personal pain.
The point of the concluding verses of chapter 10 is not apostasy but the danger to believers of willfully departing from God’s will.
I have a question about your comment on verse 39. > “Perdition” here is not hell; it is not eternal destruction of the soul. This word means ruin. The term can refer to either eternal destruction in hell or temporal discipline. Here to draw back will ruin the believer who does this in his present life. These believers “who draw back” will face temporal discipline from God.
If Hebrews 10:39 means all believers, and they will just be ruined, then why did Paul say: But we are
NOT of those who draw back to perdition? According to Hebrews 10:25 and 10:29 for example, we believers ARE sometimes those who draw back to bad behavior!
Heb. 10:25 – not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb. 10:29 – How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
Mike, thanks again for your comments. Note that I did not say this refers to all Christians, but only Christians in reversionism. Note previous verses. The previous and succeeding contexts are dealing with believers. Note also my studies on the verses you referenced.
What I meant is that this chapter is ADDRESSED to all believers. And in particular, verses 25 and 29 tell us, “Don’t be THIS KIND OF Christian.
But in verse 39 Apostle Paul wrote, “But “WE” are “NOT” OF THOSE who shrink back to destruction—-but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.”
In this verse, Apostle Paul specifically includes himself. And he says that HE and other true believers are NOT OF THOSE who shrink back to destruction.
He says that he and other true believers are OF THOSE of (genuine) faith who PRESERVE their souls. So it looks pretty clear to me that the group in the first part of the verse is the antithesis of the group of true believers in the second part of the verse.
So if the people in the first group are just bad Christians as you have basically commented, then it stands to reason that their SOULS would still be EQUALLY “preserved” or saved.
Mike, there are a number of things to keep in mind. The entire epistle was written to show Christians how to sustain their Christian lives in suffering. The Greek word for “endure” (ὑπομονῆς) is a key term running throughout the book of Hebrews. Believers needed to learn how to have the tenacity of soul while under persecution (He 10:32-34). Thus, the context does not deal with heaven and hell, but with what it takes to endure suffering without caving to the pressures around the Christian. V. 35 indicates that believers had a problem with their “confidence,” they were weakened by persecution. If they maintained their confidence, God will “reward” them, if not then they will lose their reward. That is why they had need of “endurance” so that they could “receive the promise” (He 10:36). Both quotations from Isaiah and Habakkuk establish this point (He 10:37); i.e., that God will reward what He promises. I think what throws many people off is what is meant by “faith” in v.38. Is it saving faith or daily operational faith by the believer for his Christian life? The latter is obviously the point in context. This is established by the entire argument of Hebrews 11 and 12, which argue for the believer walking by faith and giving examples of believers in the Old Testament, and even Jesus as he walked on this earth (He 12:1ff). The believer (“the just”) must walk by faith to endure sufferings, or he will subsume to persecution. God takes no pleasure in those who do not walk by faith (He 10:38). The writer of Hebrews is one who walks by faith; he does not ruin his Christian walk by caving into persecution. Obviously, he does not include himself in the group that goes into reversion because they do not walk by faith. The very next verse says “now faith is…” speaking of how to live daily by faith. What is important in interpretation is context above all. If a person neglects the argument of this section of Hebrews, he uses pretexting based on a couple of verses (that have more than one interpretation).
Everything you wrote makes perfect sense except for one thing. If Apostle Paul was addressing a group of people who were all saved, then how would he know which people in that group were going to have endurance (like him) and which ones were going to shrink back? There is no way he could have known that because he could not see into the future. Some of “those saved” might have shrunk back.
But if he was talking about those who were saved and those who were not saved, then he could easily make that distinction because even though they were in that mix of people that contained the saved and the unsaved they would still ALWAYS be saved. That would have NEVER changed.
Furthermore, I checked the Greek word for PRESERVED used in this verse. It appears in five New Testament verses. And in each of them, this word has the meaning of being eternally SAVED.
And then you stated this: The word “saving” in Greek does not always refer to saving the soul for eternity. It has a range of meanings that include saving the consistent life of the believer. Peter cried while walking on the sea, “Lord, save me.” He meant, ”Save me from drowning.” The salvation here is the saving of the believer from ruining his Christian life. This phrase has nothing to do with the conversion of the soul.
However, the Greek word used in this verse about Peter is σῶσον (sōson) — 7 Occurrences. And you can see that in each of these verses it is talking about the “temporary saving of life” in this world.
P.S. I should have added this before. Jesus used this word: σῶσον (sōson) in reference to Himself.
John 12:27
Now my soul has become troubled; and what am I to say? ‘Father, SAVE me from this hour’? But for this purpose, I came to this hour.
Obviously, Jesus’ soul did not need eternal salvation.
Mike, thank you for calling attention to my lack of clarity on the word translated “saving” in the NKJV. I now have made it clearer in the revision of Heb 10:39. Also, I would suggest that you not attempt to use Greek because each time you attempt to use it, you use it improperly. I have had 8 years of Greek, 3 of Hebrew. To properly use Greek, you need at least 3 or more years, maybe even 5 years to use it with felicity.
To Dr. Grant: You are the only Bible scholar that I could find who says that the word DESTRUCTION in Hebrews 10:39 is NOT talking about the DESTRUCTION of a person in hell.
The word for DESTRUCTION in Hebrews 10:39 is the same word that is used in Matthew 7:13.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction (apōleian), but among those who have faith to the preservation of our souls.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction (apōleian), and many enter through it.
I don’t have to be that knowledgeable in Greek to see the very clear meaning of this word!
That is why every Bible commentary by respected Bible scholars that I saw at biblehub.com, on Hebrews 10:39, all say it is talking about the eternal destruction of the unbeliever— i.e. the one who shrinks back.
And I was right about this. >>
However, the Greek word used in that verse about Peter is σῶσον (sōson) — 7 Occurrences. And you can see that in each of these verses it is talking about the “temporary saving of life” in this world.
Furthermore, I checked the Greek word for PRESERVED used in this verse. It appears in five New Testament verses. And in each of them, this word has the meaning of being “eternally SAVED.”
I didn’t make a mistake.
No mistake with the Greek meaning. These verses are all very clear as to what they actually mean.
——————————-
σῶσον (sōson) — 7 Occurrences — it means a temporary saving of life on this earth — not eternal saving from sin
———————–
Matthew 8:25 V-AMA-2S
GRK: λέγοντες Κύριε σῶσον ἀπολλύμεθα
NAS: Him, saying, Save [us], Lord;
KJV: saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
INT: saying Lord save us we are perishing
———————–
Matthew 14:30 V-AMA-2S
GRK: λέγων Κύριε σῶσόν με
NAS: he cried out, Lord, save me!
KJV: saying, Lord, save me.
INT: saying master save me
———————–
Matthew 27:40 V-AMA-2S
GRK: ἡμέραις οἰκοδομῶν σῶσον σεαυτόν εἰ
NAS: it in three days, save Yourself! If
KJV: three days, save thyself. If
INT: days build [it] save yourself If
———————–
Mark 15:30 V-AMA-2S
GRK: σῶσον σεαυτὸν καταβὰς
NAS: save Yourself, and come down
KJV: Save thyself, and
INT: save yourself having descended
———————–
Luke 23:37 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τῶν Ἰουδαίων σῶσον σεαυτόν
NAS: of the Jews, save Yourself!
KJV: the king of the Jews, save thyself.
INT: of the Jews save yourself
———————–
Luke 23:39 V-AMA-2S
GRK: ὁ χριστός σῶσον σεαυτὸν καὶ
NAS: Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself
KJV: be Christ, save thyself and
INT: the Christ save yourself and
———————–
John 12:27 V-AMA-2S
GRK: εἴπω πάτερ σῶσόν με ἐκ
NAS: Father, save Me from this
KJV: shall I say? Father, save me from
INT: shall I say Father save me from
——————————————————
περιποίησις (peripoiésis) — 5 Occurrences — this word means eternal saving from sin
———————–
Ephesians 1:14 N-GFS
GRK: ἀπολύτρωσιν τῆς περιποιήσεως εἰς ἔπαινον
NAS: to the redemption of [God’s own] possession, to the praise
KJV: the redemption of the purchased possession, unto
INT: [the] redemption of the acquired possession to praise
———————–
1 Thessalonians 5:9 N-AFS
GRK: ἀλλὰ εἰς περιποίησιν σωτηρίας διὰ
NAS: us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation
KJV: but to obtain salvation by
INT: but for obtaining salvation through
———————–
2 Thessalonians 2:14 N-AFS
GRK: ἡμῶν εἰς περιποίησιν δόξης τοῦ
NAS: our gospel, that you may gain the glory
KJV: to the obtaining of the glory
INT: of us to [the] obtaining of [the] glory of the
———————–
Hebrews 10:39 N-AFS
GRK: πίστεως εἰς περιποίησιν ψυχῆς
NAS: but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
KJV: to the saving of the soul.
INT: of faith to preserving [the] soul
———————–
1 Peter 2:9 N-AFS
GRK: λαὸς εἰς περιποίησιν ὅπως τὰς
NAS: A PEOPLE FOR [God’s] OWN POSSESSION, so
INT: a people for a possession that the
Mike, it is getting frustrating in dealing with someone who is attempting to use Greek, of which he knows little or nothing about. It is highly dangerous even for those who know a little Greek to make judgments on Greek without a full understanding of the implications of using it.
First, the Greek word in Hebrews 10:39 is not σῶσον but περιποίησις. περι means around and ποίησις means do or make, giving the idea of preserving, keeping, and yes saving (but not in the eternal sense). Note these studies:
περιποίησις, εως, ἡ as an action; (1) preserving for oneself, saving, keeping (HE 10:39); (2) acquiring for oneself, obtaining (1TH 5:9); (3) possessing for oneself, possession (1P 2:9)
περιποίησις (peripoiēsis), possession; gaining. Cognate words: ἀγαθοποιέω, ἀγαθοποιί̈α, ἀγαθοποιός, ἀχειροποίητος, εἰρηνοποιέω, εἰρηνοποιός, εὐποιί̈α, ζῳοποιέω, κακοποιέω, κακοποιός, καλοποιέω, μοσχοποιέω, ὀχλοποιέω, περιποιέω, ποιέω, ποίημα, ποίησις, ποιητής, προσποιέω, σκηνοποιός, συζωοποιέω, χειροποίητος
57.62 (3) possession Eph 1:14; 1 Pe 2:9; preservation Heb 10:39
περιποιέω
cause to remain over and above, keep safe, preserve
(Show lexicon entry in LSJ Middle Liddell) (search)
περιποίησιςb, εως f: (derivative of περιποιέομαι ‘to acquire,’ 57.61) that which is acquired, presumably with considerable effort—‘possessions, property.’ λαὸς εἰς περιποίησιν ‘a people that has become (God’s own) possession’ 1 Pe 2:9; ἀλλὰ εἰς περιποίησιν σωτηρίας διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ‘but for the possession of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ’ 1 Th 5:9. For another interpretation of περιποίησις in 1 Th 5:9, see 90.74.
The author uses the cognate noun of the verb “to shrink back” in v. 38. The word is used only here in the Greek New Testament and does not itself refer to apostasy, but it is often so interpreted in this context. The word here refers contextually to a lack of endurance. Whether this is referring to apostasy or not is another matter altogether. Those who take it to mean apostasy point to the phrase “to destruction,” where the preposition in Greek means “with the result that.”157 Here the word is often taken to refer to everlasting destruction. The active sense of the noun “destruction” is rendered verbally as “to be destroyed.” Again, however, this noun does not itself mean “everlasting destruction,” though such an interpretation is contextually possible.
The class of people who withdraw is contrasted with the “faith” class. The noun pistis158 is usually translated in such a way as to bring out the verbal idea as in the NIV’s “those who believe.” The final noun phrase reads (lit.) “unto [with the result that] [the] preservation of [the] soul.” The word in Greek indicates preserving something in the sense of keeping it safe. “Soul” here does not necessarily refer to “eternal life” but to one’s physical life or being.159
Likewise, given the contextual considerations of passages like Heb 6:4–6 and 10:26–31, not to mention the lexical meaning of key words and phrases which can be taken to refer to genuine believers and to something other than eternal damnation, how can it be asserted unequivocally by many in the Reformed tradition that the meaning is to apostasy in the traditional theological sense of that term? That interpretation is certainly possible, but it is not at all certain, or even probable, as I have endeavored to show. Apostasy is certainly a possibility for one who is a member of the outward church, as we acknowledged in the discussion of Heb 6:4–6. Since salvation is a work of God in one’s life and since Scripture teaches the eternal security of a genuine believer, apostasy shows that a person was never truly converted. This approach is compatible with the Reformed understanding of apostasy. The problem comes when interpreters attempt to foist this construct on the warning passages of Hebrews. When that happens, one must make a number of hermeneutical “adjustments”165 to create a fit: posit two audiences the author is addressing, one comprised of genuine believers and the other comprised of false believers; re-interpret straight-forward language so as to make it describe mere “professors” who are not genuine believers; minimize or ignore the Old Testament background of the warning passages; and minimize or ignore the concept of spiritual maturity as the context of the warning passages. One question that arises for those who see apostasy in this passage is how can those who are righteous (10:38) be called righteous if they apostatize?
The key point and conclusion is this: the warning passages are not addressing the danger of apostasy. They address the danger of willful disobedience to God on the part of a genuine believer and the serious consequences to that disobedience.
Excursus: On Smuggling Presuppositions into Exegesis
The old saying “even a stopped clock is right twice a day” is applicable to Rudolph Bultmann’s outstanding article “Is Exegesis without Presupposition Possible?” Evangelicals and Bultmann don’t have much in common, but most Evangelicals would concur with Bultmann in answering “no.” All who labor in exegesis must fight the urge to smuggle our presuppositions into the task. There is no more glaring example of this syndrome than in the way some Arminians and Calvinists approach the warning passages in Hebrews. By definition, an Arminian believes it is possible for a truly born again Christian to lose one’s salvation. Arminian interpreters correctly recognize that the author of Hebrews addresses his readers as believers throughout the epistle. When they encounter the warning passages with such language as “falling away,” “trampling under foot the Son of God,” and “destruction,” they are usually all too quick to presuppose the author is talking about loss of salvation and thus they describe the passages in this way before the first spade of exegetical dirt is turned. Thus, to take one example, Grant Osborne, in his chapter “A Classical Arminian View” in Four Views on the Warning Passages in Hebrews, 86–128, informs his readers in the second paragraph that Heb 6:4–6 speaks of genuine believers who commit apostasy which is the unpardonable sin, and thus lose their salvation forever.166 Forty-one pages later, he draws the same conclusion. Undoubtedly, he is convinced that the text warrants such a conclusion. But his chapter evidences the presupposition smuggled in at the beginning of the argument. Another example is the excellent and influential article on the subject by Scot McKnight.167
Calvinists are no less guilty in their approach to the warning passages. For example, Calvin himself, in commenting on, Heb 10:26, in the very first sentence pronounces the passage a reference to apostasy. Two paragraphs later, he said that “it is clear from the context the apostle is referring here only to apostates.”168 Hughes, in commenting on, 10:26, writes in the very first sentence: “The very real danger of apostasy … is now stressed once more. Persons who lapse into the irremediable state of apostasy are precisely those members of the Christian fellowship who sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth.”169
Finally, we consider two stellar commentaries on Hebrews in English by William Lane and Paul Ellingworth. Lane’s discussion of v. 26 is interesting in the way he develops the logic of what the author is saying. First, he notes that the passage is introduced by gar which closely connects it to the preceding paragraph 10:19–25. Lane says nothing about apostasy in 10:19–25. Second, Lane spoke of those who “deserted” the community in 10:25. The author of Hebrews said nothing about the readers “deserting” the community. Lane then stated: “the neglect of God’s gifts is almost tantamount to a decisive rejection of them.” Note the phrase “almost tantamount.” Lane is conjecturing here. The author of Hebrews spoke of “neglect” in 2:1–4, but not of “rejection.” Lane next speaks of the readers’ neglect of meeting together as displaying “contemptuous disregard” for the truth. True enough, but again there is nothing here concerning apostasy. He points out that such an attitude exposes “hardened offenders” to divine judgment, and then stated the severe warning is parallel to Heb 6:4–6. Lastly, he concludes “it exposes the gravity of apostasy.”170 All of this is in the confines of the first paragraph of commentary on, Heb 10:26 and precedes any exegesis or explanation of the text. Turning to Ellingworth’s commentary on Hebrews, in his second sentence of commentary on, Heb 10:26 we are told the author is describing “the nature and consequences of apostasy.”
From these examples it ought to be evident that commentators have perhaps not always been aware of their own presuppositions which get smuggled into the argument. Even if their interpretation of Heb 6:4–6 and 10:26–31 is correct, smuggling the supposed meaning of the text into their writing before the exegetical spadework is done is problematic.
Mike, I am finished with you. Each time you attempted to use the Greek I showed you how you were wrong, but you go blithely go on your way as if facts do not matter. You are not worthy of an intelligent conversion. All communication from you will not be approved.